Some thoughts on freewill

A conversation about freewill went on between myself and another on a message board. He raised up a list of verses which he believes prove that men have a freewill (to choose to do God's will).

This was my reply:

People tend to start off on the wrong premise. I see all the time how many people think the will is self determining, but we must understand that the will is driven by something. Namely, our nature. We will to make choices, yes. I don't think anyone who argues against the freedom of the human will would disagree with this. The question, however, is what does natural, fallen man WANT to do? The answer ... SIN. Fallen man wills to sin rather than willing to be holy. If you deny this biblical precept, you must also deny salvation by grace alone. You must ... MUST admit that if natural man can sometimes be holy enough to please God (and that is the whole point of saying the will is in bondage) then natural man can make it into heaven based on his own performance.

In a nutshell, the human will is in BONDAGE ... either to sin unto death, or righteousness unto life.

Romans 6:16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?

A.W. Pink:

1. The Nature of the Human Will.
What is the Will? We answer, the will is the faculty of choice, the immediate cause of all action. Choice necessarily implies the refusal of one thing and the acceptance of another. The positive and the negative must both be present to the mind before there can be any choice. In every act of the will there is a preference—the desiring of one thing rather than another. Where there is no preference, but complete indifference, there is no volition. To will is to choose, and to choose is to decide between two or more alternatives. But there is something which influences the choice; something which determines the decision. Hence the will cannot be sovereign because it is the servant of that something. The will cannot be both sovereign and servant. It cannot be both cause and effect. The will is not causative, because, as we have said, something causes it to choose, therefore that something must be the causative agent. Choice itself is affected by certain considerations, is determined by various influences brought to bear upon the individual himself, hence, volition is the effect of these considerations and influences, and if the effect, it must be their servant; and if the will is their servant then it is not sovereign, and if the will is not sovereign, we certainly cannot predicate absolute "freedom" of it. Acts of the will cannot come to pass of themselves—to say they can, is to postulate an uncaused effect. Ex nihilo nihil fit—nothing cannot produce something

...

2. The Bondage of the Human Will.
...In what does the sinner’s freedom consist? This question is naturally suggested by what we have just said above. The sinner is ‘free’ in the sense of being unforced from without. God never forces the sinner to sin. But the sinner is not free to do either good or evil, because an evil heart within is ever inclining him toward sin. Let us illustrate what we have in mind. I hold in my hand a book. I release it; what happens? It falls. In which direction? Downwards; always downwards. Why? Because, answering the law of gravity, its own weight sinks it. Suppose I desire that book to occupy a position three feet higher; then what? I must lift it; a power outside of that book must raise it. Such is the relationship which fallen man sustains toward God. Whilst Divine power upholds him, he is preserved from plunging still deeper into sin; let that power be withdrawn, and he falls—his own weight (of sin) drags him down. God does not push him down, anymore than I did that book. Let all Divine restraint be removed, and every man is capable of becoming, would become, a Cain, a Pharaoh, a Judas. How then is the sinner to move heavenwards? By an act of his own will? Not so. A power outside of himself must grasp hold of him and lift him every inch of the way. The sinner is free, but free in one direction only—free to fall, free to sin. As the Word expresses it: "For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness" (Rom. 6:20). The sinner is free to do as he pleases, always as he pleases (except as he is restrained by God), but his pleasure is to sin.

http://www.pbministries.org/books/pi...nty/sov_07.htm

Having said all that, I will address a few of your verses (in green):

Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

Please tell me where the will is involved in these verses? I only see a command given, not a choice made. Tell me ... what choice was made? This choice indicates that the nature of the person making the choice determined the outcome of their choice. Their will was a servant to their nature, which shows that their nature desired to disobey God rather than obey Him. The choice is our answer right here.

Genesis 4:6 The LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry, and why has your face fallen? 7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it."

I refer you to the response above. IF you do well...is only a choice given, not a choice made. The command to rule over sin is given, but the will did only what the nature would allow. Did Cain rule over his sin? Obviously not. Why not? Because he willed not to. Why did he will not to? Because his nature was fallen into sin. His nature determined his willingness.

I hear it already ... why do some murder and not others? (or something like that) ... I answer: God uses sinners for His purposes. This is shown in Egypt in the story of Moses and Pharoah. God hardened Pharoah's heart. Why?

Romans 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."

Now there are times where God does NOT use sinners to murder or imprison or whatever, but it is quite clear from Scripture that GOD moves the sinner just as He moves the Christian.

Exo 13:17 When Pharaoh let the people go, God did not lead them by way of the land of the Philistines, although that was near. For God said, "Lest the people change their minds when they see war and return to Egypt."

Again ... a choice offered does not show a choice made.

As for your next set (Exodus 19:5-8), look at verse 4:

Exodus 19:4 You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself. 5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my treasured possession among all peoples, for all the earth is mine; 6 and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. These are the words that you shall speak to the people of Israel." 7 So Moses came and called the elders of the people and set before them all these words that the LORD had commanded him. 8 All the people answered together and said, "All that the LORD has spoken we will do." And Moses reported the words of the people to the LORD.

It seems to me that the offer they were given, was only accomplished because the LORD acted first.

Deuteronomy 1:43 So I spoke to you, and you would not listen; but you rebelled against the command of the LORD and presumptuously went up into the hill country.

So ... this goes with everything I have said all along. They only will to be in rebellion. If someone has a will that is free to choose either sin or righteousness APART from God's regenerating work in man's heart, what need is there for a Savior?

I'm going to skip down a few, so I can give you a flavor of everything you present. You present Psalm 32:8,9. I show you the entire chapter:

Psalm 32:1 A Maskil of David. Blessed is the one whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man against whom the LORD counts no iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no deceit.
3 For when I kept silent, my bones wasted away through my groaning all day long.
4 For day and night your hand was heavy upon me; my strength was dried up as by the heat of summer. Selah.
5 I acknowledged my sin to you, and I did not cover my iniquity; I said, "I will confess my transgressions to the LORD," and you forgave the iniquity of my sin. Selah.
6 Therefore let everyone who is godly offer prayer to you at a time when you may be found; surely in the rush of great waters, they shall not reach him.
7 You are a hiding place for me; you preserve me from trouble; you surround me with shouts of deliverance. Selah.
8 I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go; I will counsel you with my eye upon you.
9 Be not like a horse or a mule, without understanding, which must be curbed with bit and bridle, or it will not stay near you.
10 Many are the sorrows of the wicked, but steadfast love surrounds the one who trusts in the LORD.
11 Be glad in the LORD, and rejoice, O righteous, and shout for joy, all you upright in heart!

It clearly speaks of one who has already been saved. One with whom God has declared righteous. Your proof text here seems to only show that the one who is teaching is the LORD. David is speaking in this psalm to God. So unless you think David is teaching God something, this is God teaching David.

Ecclesiastes 7:29 See, this alone I found, that God made man upright, but they have sought out many schemes.

God made man without sin, but quite obviously not without the ability to sin. The only man God made upright is Adam. Everyone else has this iniquity inherently in them ... original sin. (Psalm 51:5, Romans 5:12)

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

What does Jesus say the will of His Father is?

John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."

The will of His Father, according to Jesus, is that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in Him should have eternal life. That's all the will of the Father is where the unregenerate is concerned. Who WILL believe?

John 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

They believed BECAUSE they were born of God (I believe that this happened at the same time - the moment you are born again, you will believe), NOT of their own will...but of God. If you attempt to say that they were born again because they believed, then you are misreading this statement. Do we believe and then become born again? Quite clearly not. We are born of the will of God. Just as we have nothing to do with our physical birth, we have nothing to do with our spiritual birth.

John 7:17 If anyone's will is to do God's will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority.

This confirms my previous conclusion. You will believe Jesus' words IF you are born again. If you are NOT born again, you will NOT believe. Who wills to do God's will?

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

The natural man hates God and does not obey God. Those who do the will of God are those who have been born again.

1Corinthians 7:36 If anyone thinks that he is not behaving properly toward his betrothed, if his passions are strong, and it has to be, let him do as he wishes: let them marry--it is no sin. 37 But whoever is firmly established in his heart, being under no necessity but having his desire under control, and has determined this in his heart, to keep her as his betrothed, he will do well. 38 So then he who marries his betrothed does well, and he who refrains from marriage will do even better.

It is clear that Paul is speaking to Christians here. Where is the free will? It only shows that a man who has his desires under control should stay unmarried to better serve the Lord.

I would continue with this exercise, but to be honest, you would have to prove with Scripture that an unsaved heathen has chosen God APART from the working of the Spirit. Can you provide this evidence?

I end with this ... and please consider this. If man is free to choose, WHAT is he free to choose? Does man choose God? Or does God choose man?

Romans 11:5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.

2Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God has from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

The steps:

We are (1) chosen by God, then we are (2) sanctified by the Spirit - set apart, then we (3) believe the truth.

Some are chosen to believe, while others are not. Does God not have this right to distinguish?

I submit that man will only choose that which he desires. And man, apart from God, does not desire God. Once God acts upon a man, gives him a new heart, and changes his nature from one desiring sin to one desiring righteousness, THEN and ONLY THEN will man choose God.

1John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.

God bless